An Eye for an Eye in Iran – Penalty for Acid Disfigurement?
I found this today in the Washington Post
Woman Blinded by Spurned Man Invokes Islamic Retribution
By Thomas Erdbrink
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, December 14, 2008; Page A01
TEHRAN — Ameneh Bahrami once enjoyed photography and mountain vistas. Her work for a medical equipment company gave her financial independence. Several men had asked for her hand in marriage, but the hazel-eyed electrical technician had refused them all. “I wanted to get married, but only to the man I really loved,” she said.
Four years ago, a spurned suitor poured a bucket of sulfuric acid over her head, leaving her blind and disfigured.
Late last month, an Iranian court ordered that five drops of the same chemical be placed in each of her attacker’s eyes, acceding to Bahrami’s demand that he be punished according to a principle in Islamic jurisprudence that allows a victim to seek retribution for a crime. The sentence has not yet been carried out.
You can read the rest of the article Here.
You may think you know how I feel about this. The man stole from this woman. He violated her very life. He stole her ability to see, her ability to support herself, he disfigured her for life and stole the likelihood of the love match she was holding out for. He treated her like property – if he can’t have her, then he will have revenge.
She fought – and won – for him to be blinded with the same acid she has been blinded with. She doesn’t ask that he be disfigured, only blinded. The court in Iran agreed. The sentence has not yet been carried out.
I’m interested in what YOU think. I feel sympathy for the woman, Ahmena Bahrami. I love the way she went after her attacker in the courts. I love it that she didn’t just collapse and be a victim.
On the other hand, I wish she had gone after something different. The thought of purposely blinding someone is SO repugnant to me, I can’t support it. I wish she had gone after his money, forcing him to support her at the level she was earning, for the rest of her life – and his. I find myself thinking – what good does it do to blind him?
He committed a heinous act. Hideous, unthinkable. And yet I find the punishment equally hideous, and unthinkable. I worry that in the future, she will regret having enforced this upon her assailant. I think that revenge, getting revenge, can extract it’s own price from our character. Do you think she will feel better? Do you think she will be happier knowing he was blinded in retrubution? I kinda sorta doubt it.
What do you think?
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Interesting you posted this article. This case has been the talk of Iranian blogs/communities for some time now. What i found is that Iranians are divided over the verdict of this case; those living abroad find it appalling and barbaric (me included) those living within Iran are mostly in favor of it.
I came back from Iran 2 days ago and honestly saw a side of iran that i had forgotten since leaving it. I had many interesting conversations with the people over there. Their stand on a lot of cases (not just this one) surprised me at the beginning. For me it was very hard to grasp how educated people could celebrate this verdict; but after hearing them out, i could begin to understand why they feel the way they do. You got to live in a place like Iran, you got to walk in the shoes of this woman and many others like her to comprehend why she would most likely never regret fighting for this punishment to be handed out. After only a week of being in Iran i began to change my stand slightly on this case and somehow took a in favor view of it. Now after only 2 days of leaving Iran, again i think it is barbaric!!!
Yes in my world, this act does seem hideous; but not in ‘her’ world.
What i have come to realize is that there are many different ‘worlds’ on this earth of ours; and it is very difficult to say what is right and what is wrong. Heck, i changed my view after my world was changed in only 2 days!!!
Oh, and by the way, acid throwing is not an uncommon crime in Iran. This guy was not the first turned-down suitor to do this but hopefully with the publicity of this case, he would be the last.
An eye for an eye
Will make us all blind
Mahatma Gandhi
I am “with” the retribution. It is meant to make those who are willing to commit crimes think twice.
The argument for the death penalty in the States has always been “it will deter future criminals”. It doesnt and the large numbers of people on death row proves it doesn’t. I hate the idea of taking a life or blinding someone. But I also believe that sometimes we have to fight back in order to protect ourselves and know peace. Why can’t we just be comfortable with saying the man deserves the punishment and should get it? It won’t stop other would-be suitors from feeling rejected and turning violent but it will probably give Ahmena a sense of peace. I think we don’t like to admit that we are human and sometimes we need to exact revenge for the wrongs done to us. It may not be productive or ‘civilized’ but it does satisfy in a way nothing else does.
Darya – Where to start? i love your comment, I love the complexities you bring forward and that you took the time to write it all.
I totally understand your switching perspectives – until we have the context, until, as you say, we walk in her shoes, we can’t begin to know what she has suffered. It is fascinating to me that Iranians inside Iran think so differently from those outside Iran. Care to speculate as to why?
But you are totally right, we can make our judgements, but they will see things differently.
I have also seen many cases of acid-throwing in Pakistan. I think it has happened occasionally in the US, too, by the way. What arrogance, what gall, to retaliate so violently because of a rejection! Or – that is how I see it.
Facts and Doubts – I have the nagging feeling that blinding someone else, in the long run, is not going to make her feel better. I don’t think retribution does much good.
Mac – The problem with retribution is that it is never-ending. So many problems caused by escalating “insults” and retaliations . . . until no one is left standing. There has to be room for forgiveness, making amends – blood money is not a part of my culture, but making restitution is. My question for you, Mac is this – do you think a man hellbent on retaliation for an insult to his honor (like a rejection of a marriage proposal) is going to stop and think about the consequences?
LOL, Q8Gypsy, not the funny kind of LOL but you-caught-me-by-surprise kind of LOL with “Why can’t we just be comfortable with saying the man deserves the punishment” and “we don’t like to admit that we are human and sometimes need to exact revenge for the wrongs done to us.”
You are right – or all those movies with horrible punishments for wrongdo-ers wouldn’t make the millions that they do. There is something inside us that has an instinct and an apetite for revenge.
Have you ever taken revenge? I can hate, I can be outraged, and I don’t think I could blind another person, even if he had blinded – and disfigured – me. I don’t think it would give me any lasting satisfaction. i guess I would like to think of restitution, instead, and of giving the offender an opportunity to understand the depth of his crime and to repent. Even as I write this, I understand that blinding him gives him that opportunity, but I wonder if that is the best way?
I would love to sentence him to supporting her and serving her for the rest of her life. Not marrying her, not having any rights over her, but being so totally in her debt that he is tied to her – for as long as she wishes it. That he take care of all the things she can no longer do for herself. That would be my idea of revenge.
intense subjectf.
if money is an issue, and it probably is a lot of the time, then your idea of revenge would be suitable.
if it isnt, then i would support the eye for an eye punishment. i agree with a comment above stating that this sort of punishment would make criminals think twice about their actions. if rapists were sodomized, i’d like to think ppl would think carefully before committing such a crime; consequential conditioning, if u will.
Intlxpatr -I totally agree with you. The crime done to this poor woman is cruel and far above our imagination.
That’s why I had to think about these words of Gandhi;
“An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind”.
May be the next quote of Francis Bacon will express my opinion about retribution and the impact on a society’s justice- and social system:
“Revenge is a kind of wild justice; which the more man’s nature runs to, the more ought law to weed it out”.
‘Acid throwing is not uncommon in Iran’, said Darya in her comment. What has this world become to?
Please, let the society and her friends have mercy for this woman and provide her with the extra needs to continue her life in love and peace.
What good would money do her? She wouldn’t even know how to touch the checks she receives due to being blind, the man isn’t even rich so she would barely be getting anything, and if released he would probably kill her.
Just take a look at the woman, one sought out by many men prior to her disfigurement and come to the realization that something horrible has been done to her.
It wasn’t rape where recovery can be made, nor was it losing the ability to walk which one can cope with and perhaps even improve on to the point of return, no. She can never see another human soul, another morning, another cup of freshly made coffee, a bird flying across the sky, none of that or anything remotely similar. She’s stuck in an alternate reality and is the sole inhabitant of that realm in a world that consists of nothing more than strange and scary sounds.
Nor would anyone find her attractive again, no more suitors would come knocking at her door.
So to those who disagree with this punishment please, drop the ‘white man saves the day’ syndrome where everything they touch is pure and just and anything else is cruel and barbaric.
It’s been four years, she probably wanted him killed or worse when it had first occurred but with time, her heart has warmed hence why she wants a surgical disfigurement of the man using only a few drops.
In this scenario, it’s the only way she can feel rectified and any third party most likely would be against this decision but I’ll bet you anything that if anyone were put in her shoes, they’d do the same or worse.
Personally, I think this is a just decision, and I hope it is carried out. Sometimes someone will just not understand something unless “they recieve a taste of their own medicine.” This verdict should not be carried out because it will prevent others from doing the same thing to women. It should be done especially to prevent THIS man from doing it to another woman, as he may have done to others in the past.
Margot, the Marrakesh Mystic
margotmystic.wordpress.com
Coco – If anyone did something horrible like this to me or one of my family members, I just would wish him dead too. First torture- and then kill him slowly to let him suffer as long as possible.
Same as I would like to do with drunken- or careless drivers, who’re major contributors of the more then 40.000 fatalities and over 400.000 serious injuries in the U.S. each year. Many of these victims have to deal with one ore more physical handicaps for the rest of their lives.
Not even mentioned the criminals who have raped or murdered. What if all the family’s would be able to execute the law themselves. Should they be allowed to throw perpetrators/criminals from high buildings? Drown them? Or may be tie them up at a chair and put them on a busy crossroad?
For this reason I’m glad we’re represented by a professional independent criminal justice system. Even for those we might think that they don’t deserve this, but at one point they have to justify themselves for God too.
The criminal who made this woman blind and disfigured her must be sentenced by Court. As far as I’m concerned they put him in jail for a very long time and let him financial bleed for the rest of his life.
Intlxpatr wrote:
“Do you think she will be happier knowing he was blinded in retribution? I kinda sorta doubt it”.
I agree on that. May be it will give some relieve for a while, but she has to pick up her life again. Referring to her determination I’m sure she will succeed.
Still I wonder why throwing acid in Iran and Pakistan is not uncommon.
I think this is something personal. Maybe I wouldn’t be able to do it. I think God’s punishments are far worse than what we can do to each other. I don’t know if it will make her feel better, after all, she is permanently blind.
I feel so sorry for her. She lost one of the most important things in life. Her sight. And no matter what you do, you can’t get it back.
But maybe what the court is doing is sending a message to others: that this will be your fate too. I wonder, though, is this what the court does to all other injustices? Such as killing or raping? What would the verdict be then?
On a side note: I was sort of happy that he gets to be punished (cruelly too). I can’t imagine what pain the girl went through, including the burden on her family.
I support Ameneh Bahrami’s decision and her right for Justice.
I would have gone for the penis
I think this will give that long suffering lady a sense of closure… and that man a lesson where he gets to ‘see’ his mistake in new light.
LOL, MiYaFuSHi!
Thank you all for your genuine and passionate expression of your feelings in this matter. I am still wrestling with it. My concern is what revenge does to US, to the ones who take revenge. I might have to ask you for more input.
CoCo, I can see you have truly put yourself in her place, felt what she is feeling and are responding with empathy and compassion for Ameneh.
Acid throwing does happen in many parts of the world more so in south east asia.
Personally I believe she has the right to demand what she feels would give her some consolation for the horrible ordeal she had to endure. But hopefully this verdict will deter other ‘romeos’ to think twice when they are turned down.
oops, i meant ” will deter, and make them think twice” 😛
interesting…the majority of those who seem to be in favor of the verdict are of middle-eastern background
@ Fact and Doubts who asks: “still I wonder why throwing acid in Iran and Pakistan is not uncommon”: it’s also very common in south-east asia as mathai pointed out and i believe the reason is that these men are truly spoiled and honestly believe if they can’t have the woman of their dreams then no one should; that’s why they resort to disfiguring their “loved’ ones.
Here’s the reason the man in this story gave himself”
“I decided to splash acid on her face so her husband would leave her and I could have her,” he told the court. He said he had earlier contemplated suicide.
Asked if he would still be prepared to marry Bahrami despite her injuries, Movahedi replied: “Yes. I love her.”
“…so she would be mine forever.”
Also here are some quotes from Ameneh:
“Testifying in Movahedi’s presence, she told the court that she wanted “to inflict the same life on him that he inflicted on me”. Asked by the judge if she wanted Movahedi’s face to be splashed with acid, she replied: “That is impossible and horrific. Just drip 20 drops of acid in his eyes so he can realise what pain I am undergoing.
“Of course, only blind him and take his eyes, because I cannot behave the way he did and ask for acid to be thrown in his face,” she said. “Because that would be [a] savage, barbaric act. Only take away his sight so that his eyes will become like mine. I am not saying this from a selfish motive. This is what society demands.”
“Shahroudi [head of Iran’s judiciary] really pressed me to demand blood money instead of retribution. He explained that such a sentence would cause lots of bad publicity for Iran. But I refused,” she said.
Hope the above quotes from the people involved in this case would help people understand why Ameneh is demanding that this verdict be carried out.
And possibly the main reason why she this verdict was celebrated by many in Iran was coz the man has repeatedly said, HE DOES NOT REGRET THROWING ACID ON HER FACE!!!! He has shown no remorse whatsoever.
oh and the pic posted here is not graphic at all; for those with a strong heart, here’s a before and after pic of her. My apologies in advance, it is pretty graphic:
Mathai, that raises another question . . . how do we raise our sons so that they have respect for women, do not consider them property, do not feel entitled to obtain us, as if we were property, or deface or destroy us, if they cannot have us?
Darya, the way this man thinks gives me shivers. That his own father agreed “IF Amenah is really blind” his own son should receive that punishment is unbelievable. I thought she was a rich woman, and educated woman, but when I read the story closely, I learned she wasn’t – all the more amazing that she has pursued every recourse, first, to get her sight back, and second, to pursue justice and set a deterring principle. She has amazing courage and character. The article in the Post also makes the point that these crimes are on the rise in Iran, and she hopes to turn that around. So I understand what she is doing.
Thank you for giving us more information, and helping us to understand how this has all come about.
I was shocked when I read he has no remorse. And that he still loves her and wants to marry her. I cannot imagine a fate more horrible for Amenah than to be married to this crazy, obsessed man.
intlxpatr, How interesting, I came to the same punishment as you. After I heard of this case a while ago, I started thinking about it, and another thing what appals me is the fact that it is a quite common sort of ”revenge”, It should carry a substantial punishment; I think this is worse than killing, and should be punished accordingly.
And as he has ruined her life, has disfugured her, blinded her and made it impossible to do her work, and very unlikely she will ever find anybody to love her now, I thought the most appropriate retribution would be that he looses his life too, and that he has to devote the rest of his life to taking care of her, supporting her, paying her bills, work hard and giving all his earnings to her exept for the bare minimum, wait on her, and will never be allowed to marry himself.
I think that is more constructive for everybody than blinding him.
And this should be meted out to all people who throw acid.
Aafke, I was thinking in terms of all she has lost – and how that can be made up to her. As Darya says, the victim is pursuing this punishment to deter like-minded suitors from inflicting this horror on other women. That’s a viewpoint I hadn’t considered.
But i like your idea, too, that men who throw acid should never be allowed to marry!
To answer your question I would say that the problem lies with parents and to a lesser extent with the educational/social system.
I studied in a co-ed school and when I went to college I was shocked by the behavior of students who went to a segregated school. They had no concept of considering a girl as their equal or a friend. One of them even told ” men cant be friends with women coz women are just there to satisfy our needs”
Yeah with that kind of attitude its no wonder India has very high rates of crimes against women.
Yikes. Hard to form a partnership with that kind of attitude. A smart woman can sometimes educate a man like that, with enough time, with enough patience, with enough love, but not always. Marriage is hard enough without the burden of that kind of attitude (IMHO)
money won’t bring back her sight either. This is the best punishment and he deserves it. he’ll never know how bad his crime was unless he got a taste of his own medicine. revenge is not always good but this guy is a criminal, he earned it. I don’t see any reason why the court should be lean on him, jail him and then what? He gets to eat and sleep for free, it’s heaven for a criminal like him. Plus he’ll be free one day, so he’ll learn nothing from all of this. I’m with her decision even if it brings her nothing, at least he’ll learn the lesson well
You’re definitely in the majority, here, Pearls. If you have read the whole article – it seems to me that the attacker doesn’t sound entirely right in his head, he sounds very very odd.
Sometimes men get the idea they are bonded in some way with some female, like there is that song about “we had a moment” (he sings “you’re beautiful” about ten thousand times in a row) and you get the feeling that the moment was entirely in this guy’s head. I almost wonder if he is also blinded if he wouldn’t interpret it as his sacrifice to be like his beloved, bonded now forever by their mutual blindness. I know, I know, it sounds crazy to me, too, but some people, obsessed people – they don’t think the same way we do.
I think what she is doing is the right thing as long as it stops what they are doing to women there. If this makes the next one think twice before acting then it was worth the barbaric act. The bible states we are to forgive 7×70. I don’t know if you can ever forgive something like that if it was my child it would be pretty hard for me to do. I think she is a very strong women!!
An eye for an eye is not enough here . The core problem here
is MARDANGI , and that need be adressed too . So the
appropiate remedy would be to throw a bucket of acid
on his genitals too .
Amaneh Bahrami deserves highest awards for the justness of her decision , not to mention the effect this punishment would have on future perpertrators . The GALL of this
heartless criminal to offer marriage as a remedy ! ! ?
Amaneh’s inner beauty is a shining example for all . I’d
marry her in a heart-beat.
Shahid Malik – I agree there should be penalties. I think, for example, in this society, where marriages are arranged, that any man who would throw acid or rape, or abduct treats a woman like property, and I think there should be a public shame factor – I think their names need to be known so that unknowing parents would not allow their daughters to marry such men. And I think there should be a reparations factor, too, to provide women violated with recompense. I would love it if it was something he had to pay for the rest of his life.
intxpatr – I assume that the bucket of acid to his genitals
should “arrange” him for appropiate marriage . Are you an
Iranian expat ? These men have no shame gene in them to feel
SHAME . That’s why I dispence this justice so readily . What
this victim needs is pixilated visual cortex stimulation
implants to her visual cortex . I know what I’m stating being a neurologist myself . Nothing comes nearer to
“recompence” as this . Reat assured the perpetator will “pay
for the rest of his life” , with my suggested justice .
Shahid – I still have a nagging concern that when we inflict a cruel and unusual punishment on someone who has committed a vicious crime, that rather than right a wrong, we lower ourselves. As much sympathy as I have for Ameneh, she sounds like a very balanced and intelligent woman, even a happy and loved woman, under the worst circumstances.
I know it sounds crazy, but there is something that tells me she is the blessed one, and her attacker is the cursed one, right now, before any punishment takes place. I am willing to imprison him for the rest of his life, as a measure of restraint, rather than take a chance that returning the insult will bar me from a chance at eternal paradise.
Jesus told us to turn the other cheek, to love our enemies, and that by doing so, we change the world. I think inflicting the same punishment on her demented attacker tempts us to do a grave wrong.
Dear intlxpatr,
Your contradict yourself blatantly (as opposed to ambivalent).”blessed” by blindness/disfigurement ? “happy”
with what reason may I ask. How can you label her “balanced
& intelligent”& wanting “grave wrong” at the same time. Time
to put it to Occum’s razor test. Why should society bear the
cost of lifetime incarceration. Chemical crime calls for
chemical punishment.Isn’t it the Bible that say- eye for eye
I think it speaks of proportionality. This dement desire
“love” from Ameneh(enemy)? How will this “change the world”
Your logic escapes me. Seems you want perpetuation of this
crime & not proactive deterence.Honour is what honour does.
Even chimpanzies have sense of fairness.Put the attacker to
his own acid test & see if God want that acid to burn or not
Thank God for Sharia justice if there ever was a case for
for one. I’m all for this chemical emasculation unlike you ,
even if it means forfieting my “chance at eternal paradise”.
Shahid – You think everything is always either/or? Sometimes I do contradict myself, and sometimes I am ambivalent. I brought attention to this article because of my discomfort with the “solution.”
In the larger scheme of things, yes, I think that Ameneh is blessed – not to be blinded but to be so well loved, so courageous, so confident. And I applaud her desire to create a deterrent for any would-be suitor who thinks throwing acid is a recourse.
Acid throwing is wrong, and horrifying. It is the recourse of someone whose thinking is not straight. A man’s honor is based – according to religion – on what is in his HEART, not on anything else.
An eye for an eye is Old Testament thinking. I am Christian – we are taught to think differently. Change cannot happen as long as retribution continues – the violence spirals upwards. The teachings of Jesus were revolutionary – and continue to be – because he told us that the Kingdom of Heaven is based on an entirely different way of thinking. There can be ways in which everyone wins, if you think outside the box.
You are a neurologist. You have advanced thinking skills. I challenge you, just for five minutes, to try thinking of other options, how good could be brought out of this awful situation.
It’s not like I have all the answers. I don’t. I think it helps to raise the questions, to raise the issues, to stir discussion. Don’t you?
intlxpatr – Do you know how SATI ( practice of self immola-
tion on her dead husband’s funeral pyre by the widow ) was
abolished ? The Brits intervention was opposed by the Hindus
as CUSTOMARY – to which the Brtish replied — ” let customs
prevail – Your custom of burning & my custom of putting to
death to such criminals & confiscation of their properties”.
Boy ! it sure put an end to that. The present acid throwers
would not be deterred by all-life imprisonment if I know the
mentality. Do you have any vested interest in the continuation of this barbarism. You certainly do not live
upto your Christian belief of “eye for an eye” nor “turn the
other cheek” so why mention your faith at all. You’re going
against it by your statement. Don’t tell me its another one
of your contradictions. Yes I’m emphatically for putting an
end to it, once & for all. Let them show their MURDANGY now
“An eye for an eye” is not Christian. You would know that if you were reading my responses as carefully as I am reading yours.
I believe throwing acid is reprehensible. A terrible crime. I am also for putting an end to it. I think the man’s name should be published, and his family shamed. I think he should go to prison for life, and that his family pay reparations to the damaged woman. I think, in this part of the world, the family pressure would stop this crime.
Secondly, in every culture, women need equal rights under the law. Until they have equal rights, men will view them as property and baby machines, a reflection on their “honor.” Our religions need to teach very clearly that “honor” comes from a clean heart, and is an individual matter, between you and God/Allah. Each person earns her or his own honor.
And, when we inflict a cruel punishment, we dishonor ourselves. I stand by that. And it’s my blog – I always have the option of having the last word. 🙂