MP Al-Muhaibi Condemns Male Teaching Female Students
From today’s <a href=”“>Al Watan
MP Jaber AlـMuhailbi condemns school incident
Staff Writer
KUWAIT: MP Jaber AlـMuhailbi has denounced the fact that grade 12 girls at AlـSabahiya High School are being taught by a foreign, male teacher. According to him, “the incident reveals a great amount of recklessness on the part of the Ministry of Education,” which he says disregards the traditions and values of Kuwaiti society.
AlـMuhailbi expressed his apprehension that there might be forces planning to replace the conservative educational system in the country with a system that openly encouraged ”mixed” schools for boys and girls.
He held Minister of Education Nouriya AlـSubaih solely responsible for the incident, said that it proved she was incompetent to shoulder her responsibilities as a minister.
He finally announced that he would put forward a number of questions concerning the aforementioned incident to the minister, and would inquire as to whether this was an occurrence seen in other schools, and asserted that there were plenty of female teachers capable of teaching female students in Kuwait.
He expressed his displeasure about the presence of a male teacher in a girls” school, calling it “unacceptable.”
Last updated on Tuesday 17/3/2009
12th grade? Isn’t that like the year girls graduate and go on to university classes (God willing/insh’allah) where they will be taught, as likely as not, by male professors?
Do these girls go to restaurants with male waiters?
Do they shop in stores with male cashiers? Male customer service agents? Male managers?
Learning self-control is like any other skill; it requires practice. You practice by confronting the realities of the situation. Society – in and out of Kuwait – is mixed. We sit next to each other on airplanes, we are seated next to one another in restaurants, our paths cross, daily. Kuwaiti girls are well brought up and can control themselves; they also have skills at turning aside the unwanted attention of the rare teacher who might overstep.
Mr. MP, we must be suspicious of those who see sexual issues lurking in every corner; what is in the heart of a man who sees sex everywhere? Give these girls a little credit. They are after an education, not some male teacher.
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This is a strange incident, I’ve never thought this might actually happen these days. Sometimes I doubt that those incidents against minister Nouriyah are filled with malice.
It just doesn’t make any sense at all!! even is we could consider the possibility of it ever happening as a new approach to solve shortage with teachers for some majors, it still says “Al-Sabahiya high school”!!! I mean who is dump enough to start a new method in a super conservative area where some of the conservative families still won’t allow the groom to see his bride before wedding night. It just doesn’t make any sense.
I think the whole thing has been misinterpreted for so many reasons, first it’s totally the wrong area to start such a project, I don’t think we are under staffed when we have high numbers of graduates specially female teachers “as far as I know”, high numbers of expatriate teachers that annually join MOE and finally to my knowledge it has never happened before!!
Possibly the perceived male teacher was merely a teaching inspector who came to inspect the quality of teaching and judge teachers performance, I remember those inspectors in the old days teaching the class and starting asking questions in the last 10 minutes of the class.
P.S.
I’m not questioning the merits of such approach but merely questioning the credibility and timing of such incident.
Hmmm. Well that does put another perspective on it. I had no idea we were talking about one of the most conservative areas in town.
Touche´, I thought the prophet Muhammed said that a man and woman were supposed to see each other before marriage. How can a woman say “yes” or “no” without sitting and talking with a man she is considering marrying?
Well she wont have to worry about a grilling…till she is reappointed that is…
tsk tsk tsk… another misinformation that I’m not going to comment on. Just a few things that were ‘lost’ in translation: 1- It was 12 grade night school (not that it makes much difference, see below) 2- Just because they are grade 12 and that’s the year where students will graduate soon and “they will be taught, as likely as not, by male professors?” does not mean that all of them will choose to go there; so our focus is on the change to the environment that people are used to, and not about other environments that some might choose later to go to.
(I’m almost sure there’s an explanation for this and it has been exaggerated)
As for ‘mixing’ and ‘seeing each other before marriage’ and the ‘mixing’ that happens in the markets and public places.. these are all different situations with different atmospheres and timings.
There is a BIG BIG BIG difference between mixing in public places and for a necessity like getting married (meeting in a controlled environment), big difference between that and having to ‘mingle’ day after day after day with the same person with direct contact (sight & conversation), even in a class room setting (or a work place for that matter, which is worse; some of the ‘innocent’ and ‘friendly’ exchanges that go on at work are simply ridiculous given the conservative culture and the need for chastity; chastity in sight and chastity of conversation as well: putting fuel next to fire and say: “learn self control” is absurd= ‘teenage pregnancies’ / “harassment suits” and teachers ‘molesting’ young students! Case of U.S. teacher who got pregnant by her male student ‘lover’ comes to mind; I wonder how many cases went undiscovered/unreported?!).
So, as you can see, your quoting of the hadeeth about permitting sitting and talking before marriage is not applicable to everything else.
Just my perspective 🙂
Well let’s just differentiate religion from traditions and you’ll see where they are coming from.
True we are Muslims but we are essentially Arabs and descend from old dark ages times where new girl babies are buried alive and women had no rights whatsoever until Islam came proclaiming their rights and equality to men. Still some of those rotten traditions managed to pass through generations till this very day.
We are a family oriented society where family gets to decide mainly everything and specially when it comes to marriage though Islam is against discrimination in marriage and we are all equal.
Talk about marrying without seeing the spouse, forcing the girl to marry against her wish and even brides booking a.k.a. “Emhayyera” where the girl’s father assigns one of his nephews to be the future husband for his girl and when the girl reaches an appropriate marriage age, anyone who wishes to marry her has to wait for her cousin approval to release her and allow her to marry if he doesn’t want to be engaged to her. As shocking as it might sounds but I was shocked that such act still exists nowadays when I saw it firsthand when I congratulated the father for his newborn daughter and saw him giving his approval to his brother that his 3-hours old daughter is the future wife to her cousin!! And when I questioned this decaying act, he simply answered me “Do you expect me to turn down my brother’s request? It’s always been that way in our family and her cousin is the best candidate worthy husband”.
It has nothing to do with religion nor education, it is deeply rooted in some families culture and traditions. Marriages in Kuwait can be a real intricate process where you have to pass many criteria “religion (Sunni or Shiite), wealth, origin (northern, southern or Persian) , citizenship state (first or second), family name, tribe’s name and ethnic (Bedouin or modern)”
One shall think that such standards are ancient history but unfortunately they still exist.
Touche:
I don’t know… I mean, sure, there were very bad practices pre-Islam, but the Prophet is quoted as saying He was sent to complement the good virtues that existed (makarim al-Akhlaq). So, it wasn’t all ‘rotten traditions’, the Arabs were known for other good virtues (generosity, family honor, etc..).
As for the traditions that exist today which you label as ‘bad’, that might be subjective to the circumstance. It only appears that ‘bad’ when a viewed from a perspective that is skewed towards ‘western’ views and values and ideas of what a relationship is and should be and how a marriage is to be conducted.
I’m not saying there aren’t negative aspects to it, I’m just not inclined to ascribe ‘evil’ to them just because the ‘west’ says so.
Thanks.
nbq
My bad, I was referring to “some” of the rotten practices which Islam condemned managed to be transported to current generation and it’s undeniable that Arabs acquire many honorable features that Islam enforced, encouraged and cultivated.
As for the absurd marriage practices, I do understand where they are coming from and why we tend to follow them and the logic behinds them but I can’t possibly approve some of them.
As per Islam, it’s Islam’s perspective that such practices aren’t the correct measures in which a marriage is judged as long the groom is flawed in terms of religion, financial capabilities to maintain a house and morals. Those were the standards prophet Mohammed mentioned and as we are all equal and the only difference is individual’s faith.
Mentabolism – I don’t understand why she didn’t face her “grillers.” The last time she faced them down, everyone was stunned and admiring of her composure, her knowledge, her skill sets and her dignity. Even her grillers were silenced – for a while. I am hoping she will be back. Clearly, some of these guys are going after her because she is a woman, and good at what she does. To me, that is disgusting.
OK, NBQ. you are right, I was not clear. Two separate issues – One, grown women (grade 12 is like 17 – 18 y/o, right?) in a room with one male teacher, and issue two – Touche´s comment about some grooms not being allowed to see his bride before they marry.
BTW: LOL @ “another misinformation that I’m not going to comment on” preceding a lengthy – and informative – comment.
I agree, the hadith about sitting together before marriage is NOT related to the students being in class with a teacher of another sex.
I disagree about the propriety of having a male teacher teaching a whole room of female students.
I love this phrase: “given the conservative culture and the need for chastity; chastity in sight and chastity of conversation as well” We have the same admonitions; the application is different, however.
You are right about that teacher in the US (actually, it happens; the percentage is low, but it happens.) That was in MY backyard, the Pacific Northwest. It was a huge scandal, a huge outrage, and that teacher went to jail. When she got out – the student was of legal age for marriage and they married, and are still married! Everyone knows her name – it is all public; people who commit shameful sins are named, and they have to live with their community knowing their misdeeds.
Touche´, your second comment is one reason I love to have you commenting on this blog. I learned SO much from your comment.
I used to hate buying books when I was working on my masters degree; some guy would take one idea, worth one paragraph or, at most, an article in Foreign Affairs, and would write an entire book, padding each chapter, and we would have to pay a fortune for that thin, literally and conceptually, little book.
You, on the other hand, take a huge subject and make it concise. When I read your comment, I found myself thinking – this is worth a BOOK! I am betting you could write an entire book on the intricacies of marriages in Kuwait . . . I have heard a few, and it fascinates me.
I THINK comment 2 was in answer to my question about how a bride and groom could marry without him ever having seen her in spite of the hadith that a bride and groom should see one another. You are explaining to me that it is not Islamic, it is cultural, right?
@Intlxpatr,
lool.. actually, what I was not going to comment on is the issue of misinformation that happens in the English media translating from arabic (lost in translation); because I talked about that in a previous comment. Sorry I wasn’t clear about that.
“I disagree about the propriety of having a male teacher teaching a whole room of female students.”
Well, that wouldn’t be a problem if ‘chastity’ was ‘observed’ as a concern of those involved (we don’t know the internals, so we go by the external behavior in terms of chaste dialogue in the subject matter only, and chaste attire)… but with what we have today…. it’s scary… so additional guards are required. I think in Saudi, I saw a while back that the professor is in an adjacent room and a video camera broadcasts it to a screen where the female students are sitting… a bit extreme, but perhaps not for their environment.
“We have the same admonitions; the application is different, however.”
Well, from previous exchanges on your blog, I think you wanted to lower the ‘application’ so as it stops at an ‘appropriate’ limit in terms of clothing/attire without reaching the level of Hijab? Well, that might be fine for the purposes here, but the thing about Hijab is that there is no disagreement (among those who are qualified and count) on its verdict being an obligation. Thus, if an adult woman does not observe it in public, then she is committing a public sin, which is worse than sinning in private. Look at how it all started with a few ‘bad apples’ back in the 50’s or 60’s in Kuwait which eventually lead to a period where hijab was a rarity and looked down upon until the revival in the ’80s.
What I’m trying to say here is that as an obligation, Hijab is to be adhered to regardless of the perceived benefit, as with all other obligations. In fact, some obligations we may not realize the wisdom/benefit behind them like the specific number of rakaa’s in prayer (2 for Fajer, 4 for thuhur prayer, etc..) that does not mean that we can play around with them as we see fit and appropriate with the times!
About the minister, she didn’t face her ‘grillers’ this time because they are not questioning her directly like last time through an official hearing/istijwab/impeachment. They went directly to the head: the Prime Minister (who may not be up to it) because they don’t dare challenge her again, loool. Politics!
Ooooh. Au contraire, mon frere!
“there is no disagreement (among those who are qualified and count) on its verdict being an obligation.”
My Saudi sisters beg to differ. They are the ones who have explained to me the different thinking on hijab, whether and how it was to apply to all women, and most of all, that it must be a CHOICE.
And I bet we disagree on who is qualified and count, too. 🙂
Don’t you know I am a great John Milton fan? Aereopagitica? “I cannot praise a fugitive and cloistered virtue?” (Essentially, without the ability to make moral choices, there is no virtue. )
I believe Kuwaiti women that age know how to behave. I trust their ability to protect their own virtue. I think they know how to handle improper behavior. Oh – I am also for integrated schools. 🙂
“And I bet we disagree on who is qualified and count, too”
“My Saudi sisters beg to differ”
I’m not aware of a “qualified” and countable school of thought in Islamic history that is named “My Saudi sisters” ;p
“I believe Kuwaiti women that age know how to behave. I trust their ability to protect their own virtue”
I believe that all women and all men (except Prophets), regardless of age, are in no way, shape or form below falling for temptation. Therefore, safeguards are there for a reason. God created Satan and told us about his animosity to us. So, even without Satan’s existence and whisperings, I wouldn’t dare to say I am to be ‘trusted’ in all circumstances, let alone with Satan and his minions (of both mankind facilitators and demons) around! (case in point: some Catholic priests’ behavior!)
I am not saying there is no room for trust and good upbringing, what I am saying is that an important result of this trust and good upbringing is to avoid putting oneself in suspicious and tempting circumstances. This is part of being chaste! Knowing and recognizing what to avoid to begin with. Again, it is not realistic to put fuel next to fire time and time again and expect it to remain ‘chaste’ and behave!! Part of the chastity is for fuel to withdraw and keep its distance!
It is narrated: “Truly, the one who circles a dangerous pit is doomed to fall into it.”
One of the things that really crack me up is what we see in some American movies and tv shows (don’t know if this is reflective of the reality) where, for example, parents send their teenage daughter (full makeup and an evening dress) off to the highschool PROM with her (hormone filled) teenage ‘date’ and fool themselves by saying “We trust her; we raised her well!” What the!!! hahaha! (I think over the years, they eventually lowered their standards and started saying “remember to use protection!!”). The parents can never really know what really went on that night!
“without the ability to make moral choices, there is no virtue”
I may not argue with that, but it is not like Hijab is the only virtuous act there is! There’s plenty of other areas and opportunities to apply this! Why single out Hijab?! It just so happens that (in Islam) part of the virtue of the society is to maintain its public environment to support the chastity and not go against it. I mean, would you argue “let nudist stroll around nude in the streets freely! We must give them the choice to achieve their virtue of modesty to the limit”?!! Or “Leave the bank’s money out on the street, to give people a choice to be virtuous non-thieves!!” I think not!
Besides, even if Hjiab in public is enforced, there is still room for a choice in the heart/intention. A woman may by wearing the Hijab out of conformity/tradition (non-virtuous) OR out of compliance to the commandment by God (virtuous). So, the choice (for virtue) is still there! 🙂
Further, of all the virtues that this ‘virtue through choice’ argument may apply to, I think the largely ‘involuntary’ (for a reason) sexual desire/response is one worthy of being excluded given the horrendous consequences! Statistics on rape, harassment, scandalous alleged harassments, teenage pregnancies, paternity suits, paternity test results(!!), etc… is testoment enough I would think!
From previous exchanges, I don’t expect that you would have too many qualms about what I said thus far; but perhaps what it comes down to is whether or not Hijab is an actual commandment of God (in Islam). So, I’ll touch some more on that. Going back to your “Saudi Sisters” ‘school’ of Islamic thought and their arguments regarding Hijab, I think even if God Himself would talk to them and command them to wear Hijab, they would still argue “But God, Hijab is not obligatory to all women and it is just a tradition…”!! In fact, their attitude today is not much different than doing just that! For God does not talk to us directly, instead He reveals His message and commandments to us. But given that some (like the “Saudi sisters”) might argue for 100s of different interpretations of the text (as is human nature), God selected Messengers to deliver His messages to be a living example and interpreters to the people at their time (imagine the chaos if there weren’t messengers! Just revealed books to follow!). The people at their time then become an example for those who come after them, and so on. But with the messenger gone, people will go back to their “Saudi sisters” habit of interpreting the text to their own liking. Thus, from among the followers of the prophet came those with the prerequisite knowledge (tools) and stature (by agreement and testament of the nation in their time to their virtue; which might answer your point on disagreement over ‘who is qualified and count’) to document the rulings and verdicts of the time and deduce (with their proper knowledge and scholarly tools) verdicts for emergent situations that did not exist before (hence, the birth of the jurisprudence schools of thought, from an academic perspective, to cater for the expansion of area and increase in population, among other things).
Yes, even the schools differ, but given their level of ‘expertise’ (highest in the trade) and the hundreds of years past with these rulings evaluated time and again (by those who are qualified), we conclude the differences in opinion that remain exist for good reasons: the right answer cannot be known with complete certainty (but a set of sufficiently supported answers can).
So, given that these rulings of the (trustworthy) jurisprudence schools are the closest/most accurate way we can get to knowing what God’s commandments to us today are, you can see the dire risk the “Saudi sisters” are taking. It could be an argument against them on the day of judgment: “You knew what the people of knowledge (scholars) among you relayed, yet you insisted on following your whims influenced by the decayed (or at least different) values and morals of those outside your Islamic nation (i.e. the ‘west’), and for what?! To parade your hair-dos in public as if you are making a statement for woman’s rights? As if over 1000 years of women in Muslim societies expected to adhere to Hijab in public are baseless and without virtue? Even if, as you claim, it is not required and it is only a tradition, you leave your own nation’s tradition to cater for others? Why? And for What? Why don’t you consider the consequences, regardless of how insignificant you may think they are?!”
Thanks.
Umm – back to the topic, nbq, if a heart is chaste and choosing chastity, there is no problem with a male teacher in a class of females. If a heart is unchaste, nothing will stop that person – hijab or no – from chasing their desire.
Here is how I see it – men fear the evil in their own heart, and they project their desires on us females. They run around like frantic sheepdogs, trying to keep track of all the little lambies, making rule after rule for our (female) behavior, when in truth, they need to be looking after their own hearts.
I speak for myself here. I am not going to run around half naked in a Muslim country; I am a guest here. I dress modestly, I dress pretty much the same way in my own country. I am the guardian of my own heart and my own behavior. I am responsible for my own conduct. When I am talking about my experiences back home, BTW, I use the same analogy – that we would now appreciate a tourist going bare-breasted on our beaches; that it would offend our sensibilities. I respect the admonition for modesty in clothing and behavior.
I believe coeducational schools teach young people how to live in peace with one another, how to work together as adults, how to communicate with one another. Having a male instructor in another room with a camera – he misses the critical things teachers look for – teaching moments – the gleam in a student’s eye when they get the great “aha!” and real learning can begin, when you can discuss ideas and their foundations.
I read this same article in Kuwait Times, and you are right, it was different and mentioned night school. NBQ, isn’t that a choice? Would a student not have a choice to attend another class with another teacher? To me, night school sounds out-of-the-ordinary.
I don’t mind single sex schools for those who prefer them. Single sex schools are fine for some; I want them to have a choice, too. I do mind the mindset that mandates ALL grades above X level will be segregated. Those parents who want their children to grow up in coeducational schools should have that right, too.
Hijab is fine for those who choose it. You blame the west, nbq. It is my impression that world round, every segment of mankind does just fine in finding decayed practices and impaired morals without the influence of the west.